Guys, your pov on BR spread is right on. For some insight on the Halo engine and how fuckin easy it would be to change that BR spread you should check out DEMONIC1'S post on the MLG forum Gamers Corner thread from Monday 6/16/08.
9:39 AM
Anonymous said...
Exactly how I feel about it. Great podcast guys. MMMMMMMM!!!!
9:15 PM
Anonymous said...
It's a shame your SECOND thread was locked as well and I see you are now banned?
Fuck bungie, they stopped caring after the game sold well.
1:42 PM
Anonymous said...
Fuck Halo 3! If Bungie wants to ignore their fans then I'm going to play COD4. How logical and reasonable do you have to be with them. The facts were shown and many solutions were proposed, and then they just lock the thread. Wait no, they made it disappear completely...like it was never there. How do the noobs get what they want with the melee system while the competitive players have to sit back and take the BR being random. WTF is that!?! They want the noob players to have fun even if it ruins the game for everyone else. So fuck halo! I'll be on COD4 from now on.
2:44 PM
Anonymous said...
You know, I just went back and played Halo 2 for the first time in about 8 months and I have to say "Wow".
Why in the FUCK did they even consider changing the BR. I love it in Halo 2. It feels tight, accurate, powerful... It even sounds better than in Halo 3! (I even like the original Xbox controllers better, but thats an argument for a different time)
I can't believe that Vapor's thread on MLG was closed as well. Complete bullshit. We had a good professional thread going that was focused (for the most part) on developing solutions to the BR problem that Bungie could implement that wouldn't affect matchmaking "balance". WTF MLG Moderators?
11:27 AM
Anonymous said...
This is bullshit.
They changed the BR because it was TOO powerful, and now it needs more skill to be used corrrectly people are annoyed.
And that whole part about them getting an old quuote from Luke, I agree he shouldn't of said that he was twisting it, but he did what all humans do and felt embarrest, when he said that he didn't mean the BR, I don't think he was ready for somone to go quote digging.
And Bungie DOES care about the players, why was Blackout on the heroic map pack? Because PLAYERS wanted it. Why is Chill out comming on the new map pack, because PLAYERS wanted it. Why did the weapons over matchmaking moved around since the game was released? Because PLAYERS wanted them to.
Just because Luke made a mistake does not mean all this bullshit it correct.
9:20 AM
Anonymous said...
You know 99% of you were unaware there was a problem with the BR (if there ever was one), because a poster on MLG, not a even a pro, had a problem. Just because he posted a well conceived write up on BR spread, everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
Think about it, how many of you and don't lie would use the AR as your main ToD if MLG considered the AR/Melee beatdown the skillfull approach to playing the game?
Because MLG says so, means that the competative community follows and listens almost blindly. Granted there are the Bungie loyalists. If MLG is going to go somewhere they need to distance themselves from the forum community where a lot of BS is started.
11:01 AM
Anonymous said...
I agree and disagree with that. There are many random faggots that follow mlg's settings and bungie's settings REGARDLESS of them being good or not, and thats the blind fanboyism of everything that seperates people who see that there is no one set way to play.
However, mlg should NOT distance themselvs from the forum community at all, because aside from all the faggots, there are numerous people on the forums like vapor ,esh, CT, Vadar(lol), etc... that understand what true competion is, and what makes a game truely competitive, and truely fucking shitty. As the cliche goes "A few rotten eggs spoil the batch" idk its some shit like that.
That cliche however SHOULD NOT apply to anything, look at what happens when you completly obey your own forum community (bungie) you wind up creating a big ol pile ofshit game that is bassically 3D rock paper sciccors, the inverse can be said when someone doesnt listen at all to the community (to many to name)
I find it irrelevent if people jump on the hate the br bandwagon, whats wrong with that? All these people denied the br being random for months, and as bungie finally said "Ya its random" they have every reason to follow the bandwagon since there is proof beyond video proof now of the br spread. So they can no longer think its the hit detection and game alone, they now see the full package. The only thing that came out of Vapors post was all this proof from bungies mouth, not a "blind following"
Mlg is doing just fine because it still has somewhat of a soul. (Soul as in they take in community feedback for the gametyps and settings, and actually listen to people with well thought out shit like DAN)
If we can sort out all the faggots and just focus on posts that are actually well thought out, then I see no reason for mlg to abandon its community or distance itself at all. btw if mlg said that AR rushing is the most skillful way of playing I dont think 99% of anyone aside from bungie.net faggots would agree to that, all the mlg community would leave, and the people that stay would be 9 yearolds that cant travel to play. Gears take the #1 spot of our games, all hell breaks loose.
Appy polly loggies if this post seems fucked up, I just popped 40 pills of robbutisn and hour ago and im started to feel them baby =). - 12w
5:48 PM
Anonymous said...
Nice podcast, keep it up. Your patience with H3 and Bungie amazes me. Hopefully they realize through your outspokenness that they do need to fix some aspects of the game and that they are not perfect. In the mean time, fuck H3, long live SR.
-Rex
9:28 PM
Anonymous said...
...Wow fuck bungie they seriously blacklisted you, MMMM fix the br..
12:34 AM
Anonymous said...
That quote from Luke is PRECISELY the problem, just as you guys said. It's random! That's my concern with burst weapons. The skill is in being able to control where the bullet goes. Hence the Halo:CE pistol. Each shot you are in complete control of where that thing is going. It was consistent. With spread weapons, ESPECIALLY the h3 battle random, err...I mean rifle, you lose control of what's going on. If you're not in control of what's going on, where is the skill? It's like watching the computer play chess. I'm not playing, so I can't claim that it takes skill for me to watch it happen. Randomness takes away SO MUCH from the game. And just like Esh said, it directly affects how the game is played. What gets me is (and I've said this from when the h3 beta came out) their twisted idea of "balance." Every weapon should be able to compete with every other weapon is apparently their philosophy. I'm just waiting for them to make a Halo where it takes both rockets direct hits to their body to kill them and all 4 sniper rounds to the face to get a kill just so that the AR guy has a chance to get a kill or to escape. How about instead of downgrading all of the GOOD weapons, maybe upgrade some of the terrible ones? Then they can play their "balanced" game and we can take out the weapons that are just powerful but don't actually take skill. The thing they don't understand about balance is this. There is natural weapon power (rockets) and weapon power that requires SKILL (pistol, sniper). Say, hypothetically, the AR was made into a 4 shot killer anywhere on their body. This would certainly create a "balance" between them and someone with a sniper rifle, but only a technical balance, not a balance in skill. They're balancing the weapons, not the skill used in games. As long as all the weapons are all on par with each other, the skill to use those weapons means nothing. That seems to be bungie's philosophy. As long as my AR can take out the BR guy, it doesn't matter that it can do so without any skill required. They balance weapons, not skill, which is exactly why the burden on MLG to create such a balance is a big one. Knowing that they do not understand balance, you'll know why they think that halo:CE is "unbalanced." Answer me this, how is that a game where EVERY PLAYER ON BOTH TEAMS starts with the same exact weapons (pistol and AR) is unbalanced? If luke starts out with pistol and AR, and I start out on the other team with pistol and AR, we have an equal shot at killing each other, right? The pistol's versatility was also the thing that KEPT the game balanced. Say you got killed and the other team got the rockets and sniper on prisoner. The pistol is the 1 weapon that can redeem yourself from such a disadvantage. The BR did the same thing in halo 2 (to a lesser extent). The starting weapon's versatility is exactly what BALANCES the game. They fail to understand what real balance is. It's not a technical weapon balance. It's a balance of skill. Bungie r dumb.
3:30 PM
Anonymous said...
Oh, and another option for Bungie would have been to make the game a lot more customizable. They have a grudge against the halo:CE pistol (for no logical reason), so they can give us the pistol as an option for custom games. They don't have to ruin their precious matchmaking. That way they're happy and we're happy. Or at least give us options enough to create a BR that doesn't suck. Of course not we know that this isn't even a customization problem, it's problem with the core of the game and online play. This is more of what I was asking during the beta. Oh beloved foreseen problems.
12 Comments:
Guys, your pov on BR spread is right on. For some insight on the Halo engine and how fuckin easy it would be to change that BR spread you should check out DEMONIC1'S post on the MLG forum Gamers Corner thread from Monday 6/16/08.
Exactly how I feel about it. Great podcast guys. MMMMMMMM!!!!
It's a shame your SECOND thread was locked as well and I see you are now banned?
Fuck bungie, they stopped caring after the game sold well.
Fuck Halo 3! If Bungie wants to ignore their fans then I'm going to play COD4. How logical and reasonable do you have to be with them. The facts were shown and many solutions were proposed, and then they just lock the thread. Wait no, they made it disappear completely...like it was never there. How do the noobs get what they want with the melee system while the competitive players have to sit back and take the BR being random. WTF is that!?! They want the noob players to have fun even if it ruins the game for everyone else. So fuck halo! I'll be on COD4 from now on.
You know, I just went back and played Halo 2 for the first time in about 8 months and I have to say "Wow".
Why in the FUCK did they even consider changing the BR. I love it in Halo 2. It feels tight, accurate, powerful... It even sounds better than in Halo 3! (I even like the original Xbox controllers better, but thats an argument for a different time)
I can't believe that Vapor's thread on MLG was closed as well. Complete bullshit. We had a good professional thread going that was focused (for the most part) on developing solutions to the BR problem that Bungie could implement that wouldn't affect matchmaking "balance". WTF MLG Moderators?
This is bullshit.
They changed the BR because it was TOO powerful, and now it needs more skill to be used corrrectly people are annoyed.
And that whole part about them getting an old quuote from Luke, I agree he shouldn't of said that he was twisting it, but he did what all humans do and felt embarrest, when he said that he didn't mean the BR, I don't think he was ready for somone to go quote digging.
And Bungie DOES care about the players, why was Blackout on the heroic map pack? Because PLAYERS wanted it. Why is Chill out comming on the new map pack, because PLAYERS wanted it. Why did the weapons over matchmaking moved around since the game was released? Because PLAYERS wanted them to.
Just because Luke made a mistake does not mean all this bullshit it correct.
You know 99% of you were unaware there was a problem with the BR (if there ever was one), because a poster on MLG, not a even a pro, had a problem. Just because he posted a well conceived write up on BR spread, everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
Think about it, how many of you and don't lie would use the AR as your main ToD if MLG considered the AR/Melee beatdown the skillfull approach to playing the game?
Because MLG says so, means that the competative community follows and listens almost blindly. Granted there are the Bungie loyalists. If MLG is going to go somewhere they need to distance themselves from the forum community where a lot of BS is started.
I agree and disagree with that. There are many random faggots that follow mlg's settings and bungie's settings REGARDLESS of them being good or not, and thats the blind fanboyism of everything that seperates people who see that there is no one set way to play.
However, mlg should NOT distance themselvs from the forum community at all, because aside from all the faggots, there are numerous people on the forums like vapor ,esh, CT, Vadar(lol), etc... that understand what true competion is, and what makes a game truely competitive, and truely fucking shitty. As the cliche goes "A few rotten eggs spoil the batch" idk its some shit like that.
That cliche however SHOULD NOT apply to anything, look at what happens when you completly obey your own forum community (bungie) you wind up creating a big ol pile ofshit game that is bassically 3D rock paper sciccors, the inverse can be said when someone doesnt listen at all to the community (to many to name)
I find it irrelevent if people jump on the hate the br bandwagon, whats wrong with that? All these people denied the br being random for months, and as bungie finally said "Ya its random" they have every reason to follow the bandwagon since there is proof beyond video proof now of the br spread. So they can no longer think its the hit detection and game alone, they now see the full package. The only thing that came out of Vapors post was all this proof from bungies mouth, not a "blind following"
Mlg is doing just fine because it still has somewhat of a soul. (Soul as in they take in community feedback for the gametyps and settings, and actually listen to people with well thought out shit like DAN)
If we can sort out all the faggots and just focus on posts that are actually well thought out, then I see no reason for mlg to abandon its community or distance itself at all. btw if mlg said that AR rushing is the most skillful way of playing I dont think 99% of anyone aside from bungie.net faggots would agree to that, all the mlg community would leave, and the people that stay would be 9 yearolds that cant travel to play. Gears take the #1 spot of our games, all hell breaks loose.
Appy polly loggies if this post seems fucked up, I just popped 40 pills of robbutisn and hour ago and im started to feel them baby =). - 12w
Nice podcast, keep it up. Your patience with H3 and Bungie amazes me. Hopefully they realize through your outspokenness that they do need to fix some aspects of the game and that they are not perfect. In the mean time, fuck H3, long live SR.
-Rex
...Wow fuck bungie they seriously blacklisted you, MMMM fix the br..
That quote from Luke is PRECISELY the problem, just as you guys said. It's random! That's my concern with burst weapons. The skill is in being able to control where the bullet goes. Hence the Halo:CE pistol. Each shot you are in complete control of where that thing is going. It was consistent. With spread weapons, ESPECIALLY the h3 battle random, err...I mean rifle, you lose control of what's going on. If you're not in control of what's going on, where is the skill? It's like watching the computer play chess. I'm not playing, so I can't claim that it takes skill for me to watch it happen. Randomness takes away SO MUCH from the game. And just like Esh said, it directly affects how the game is played. What gets me is (and I've said this from when the h3 beta came out) their twisted idea of "balance." Every weapon should be able to compete with every other weapon is apparently their philosophy. I'm just waiting for them to make a Halo where it takes both rockets direct hits to their body to kill them and all 4 sniper rounds to the face to get a kill just so that the AR guy has a chance to get a kill or to escape. How about instead of downgrading all of the GOOD weapons, maybe upgrade some of the terrible ones? Then they can play their "balanced" game and we can take out the weapons that are just powerful but don't actually take skill. The thing they don't understand about balance is this. There is natural weapon power (rockets) and weapon power that requires SKILL (pistol, sniper). Say, hypothetically, the AR was made into a 4 shot killer anywhere on their body. This would certainly create a "balance" between them and someone with a sniper rifle, but only a technical balance, not a balance in skill. They're balancing the weapons, not the skill used in games. As long as all the weapons are all on par with each other, the skill to use those weapons means nothing. That seems to be bungie's philosophy. As long as my AR can take out the BR guy, it doesn't matter that it can do so without any skill required. They balance weapons, not skill, which is exactly why the burden on MLG to create such a balance is a big one. Knowing that they do not understand balance, you'll know why they think that halo:CE is "unbalanced." Answer me this, how is that a game where EVERY PLAYER ON BOTH TEAMS starts with the same exact weapons (pistol and AR) is unbalanced? If luke starts out with pistol and AR, and I start out on the other team with pistol and AR, we have an equal shot at killing each other, right? The pistol's versatility was also the thing that KEPT the game balanced. Say you got killed and the other team got the rockets and sniper on prisoner. The pistol is the 1 weapon that can redeem yourself from such a disadvantage. The BR did the same thing in halo 2 (to a lesser extent). The starting weapon's versatility is exactly what BALANCES the game. They fail to understand what real balance is. It's not a technical weapon balance. It's a balance of skill. Bungie r dumb.
Oh, and another option for Bungie would have been to make the game a lot more customizable. They have a grudge against the halo:CE pistol (for no logical reason), so they can give us the pistol as an option for custom games. They don't have to ruin their precious matchmaking. That way they're happy and we're happy. Or at least give us options enough to create a BR that doesn't suck. Of course not we know that this isn't even a customization problem, it's problem with the core of the game and online play. This is more of what I was asking during the beta. Oh beloved foreseen problems.